Accidental Empire: The 150k Network Built On Negligence
“I was an early adopter of LinkedIn and as soon as groups were a possibility, I thought I’ll start one... I had really forgotten all about it, and it wasn’t really until we were approaching lockdown and the pandemic, that I realised it had 18,000 members.”
Imagine setting up a LinkedIn group, ignoring it, then discovering it had attracted 18-thousand members.
Mark Walmsley, Founder and Director of the Arts and Culture Network, did just that – and that neglected LinkedIn group became the foundation for a vibrant global community.
This episode delves into Mark's unconventional journey, revealing how a seemingly accidental beginning blossomed into a powerful network for arts and culture professionals.
Jason Caffrey, CEO of podcast and content marketing company Creative Kin, discovers how Mark organically grew a 150,000-member network with minimal budget, built a paid members model, and began supporting creatives through the ACN's “democratic collective philanthropy”.
Listen in your podcast feed:
Mark Walmsley shares his insights, revealing:
👉 Sometimes your most valuable asset is one you've forgotten about
👉 Building a truly engaged community is more valuable than chasing vanity metrics
👉 Relying solely on rented land like social media platforms has limitations
👉 Converting free members to paid subscribers is often more about awareness than value
👉 A clear vision for giving back and fostering support within your community can be a powerful driver for growth
Whether you're an entrepreneur, a content creator, or a marketing professional, Mark Walmsley's story offers valuable insights and motivation for leveraging existing assets, building strong communities, and navigating the challenges of online growth.
Learn how a focus on genuine connection and a commitment to a clear mission can lead to the creation of a thriving and impactful network, even without a significant marketing budget.
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Accidental Empire: The 150k Network Built On Negligence
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[00:00:00] Intro
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[00:00:00] Jason Caffrey: Imagine building a community of 150,000 members, not with a massive budget, but with a simple approach that focuses resources on. Key outcomes. My guest for this edition of the Content Mavericks Club is Mark Wamsley. He's the founder of the Arts and Culture Network. We're gonna learn how Mark's unconventional approach transformed and neglected LinkedIn Group into a thriving network for arts and culture professionals that now offers support for artists finance by its growing paid membership.
Mark's enjoyed high level careers in both music and marketing, and he brings a lot of valuable insight into community building, exploiting assets with focus and purpose, and navigating the challenges of growth with limited resources. So next, meet Mark. And get into it.
[00:01:06] ACN 101: What Does It Do?
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[00:01:06] Jason Caffrey: Where I'd like to begin, mark, is with a, a kind of Arts and Culture Network 1 0 1 for all of our audience. So tell us what the Arts and Culture Network is, what it does, and what the state of play is, if you like, for the network right now.
[00:01:27] Mark Walmsley: Thank you. Yes. The Arts and Culture Network is a growing global community of over 150,000 practitioners, professionals, supporters, and enthusiasts all over the world.
We are independent, diverse, borderless inclusive. We celebrate difference and we're a little bit pirate in that we don't have any shareholders, grant making bodies. Um, advertisers or sponsors influencing our development. So that's it in a nutshell.
[00:02:02] Jason Caffrey: What, what is the status of the network Now, I talked about having 150,000 members, you know, how would you describe where the ACN the arts and culture network is right now?
[00:02:17] Mark Walmsley: So, I started the group as a LinkedIn group back in 2010, as you mentioned, and it grew on its own. Um, without me doing much. Um, at the time I was an early adopter of LinkedIn and as soon as groups were a possibility, I thought I'll start one. And it grew on its own. I had really forgotten all about it, and it wasn't really until we were approaching lockdown and the pandemic, but I realized it had 18,000 members at that point.
And. None of nobody had met or collaborated, and so I thought, well, we're all used to Zoom now I'll host a few Zoom networking sessions. So I started doing random speed networking, which is just a. A fast paced hour with people turning up, meeting six or seven people for five minutes, and, uh, it was great fun and it, and it grew from there really.
That, that remains the pulse of our community. Those, those six networking events that I host each month. Um, one is in London, face-to-face. We do a Tuesday taster session at 6:00 PM UK time, and then we do. European networking on the first Thursday of the month, and global networking on the third Thursday of the month.
And we've just started face-to-face in New York as well, which is, which is exciting. And so there are three levels of involvement really. There are the LinkedIn groups of which there are eight now, arts and culture, uh, groups. The, the meetings are all free and those are the pulse of the community. And then we, it we're supported by our.
Full members to the tune of the frightening 10 pounds per month to, and, and that's really how we're funded. So whilst we have a, what, what looks like 150,000 in our community, it's a little bit like having lots of money in Monopoly. Um, we have 300 full members and, but we're on target to, to get. To grow that to 2000 by the end of the decade, by which time we'll have become a support foundation for our members.
Yes, yes.
[00:04:27] Leveraging A Forgotten 18k LinkedIn Group
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[00:04:27] Jason Caffrey: We'll come back to the support foundation and the future of the network. The next question I've got on my list is what were the specific strategies that you used to grow and engage with the group? And I'm slightly laughing at that question now because it sounds like it was a set a group up.
Forget about it, realize that there's quite a lot of people there, and then try and do something with it. Um, when you went back into the group and realized how many people were in the group, what did you then think? I mean, you talked about the meetings, the, those col kind of collaboration meetings that you set up.
What was your thinking though about what you wanted to do and how you were gonna do it?
[00:05:18] Mark Walmsley: Um, yes, it's, it's funny, my strategy was negligence. Um, when I, when my side hustle became my main hustle because during that time I was working as a brand and marketing consultant anyway, and I had a branding agency as well.
And when I made the decision to, in fact, it was one of our members triggered the whole. Sarah Hunt is an, an extremely good creative coach. Um, she used to be the general manager at the National Theater, and she now coaches from The Bahamas, which is nice for her. Um, she asked me, uh, um, I, the sessions I had with her were like being hit with a velvet mallet,
[00:05:59] Jason Caffrey: and
[00:06:00] Mark Walmsley: she asked me.
She said, why? Why aren't you doing? She said, first of all, she said, what do you want to do? And I said, well, having had a career with an unfocused career, I'd like a focused career. Now I'd like to put all my energy into growing this community. I'd also. Um, been following, um, Lisa Johnson, the queen of recurring revenue, to get some ideas about how I could monetize it once it was, um, airborne properly.
And Sarah said to me, one, gimme one word while you're not doing that now. Why? It was guilt. I had my. Commitments in other areas to family income, to the, the, the fellow partners in my branding agency, to some clients in the pharmaceutical industry who I was supporting. And I thought I'll be letting a lot of people down if I just throw everything.
In the air, and she said, give it three months. Those problems might sort themselves. And they did. My wife got a great contract, which meant there was more money coming into the household. My partners in the branding agency decided they were going to leave because they wanted to buy an art center. And the, the, the pharmaceutical clients sort of, um, drifted away.
And so I thought, well, this is the moment. You know, so, and I, there is a, I'm very fortunate, uh. That as the group grew in its early stages, when somebody is a member of a LinkedIn group, it says so on your profile. And so, um, it grew organically and we're still getting over a hundred applications to join the group every day, despite the fact that LinkedIn don't, aren't quite.
So, um, you know, they're not quite so good at letting people know what groups you're in, but tho those things change. So that was very fortunate. So the top of my funnel was, and still is to a. A lesser extent being filled, um, by LinkedIn, free of charge. That, so thank you LinkedIn. Sorry.
[00:07:52] Jason Caffrey: Thank you. LinkedIn.
[00:07:53] Mark Walmsley: Yes, thank you LinkedIn. Um, but my, but as you know, LinkedIn are pretty, um, precious about I. Contact details and email addresses and, and you, back in the day, you used to be able to download all of your first connections, including their email addresses. That that doesn't seem to be quite the, the case anymore.
So if I could drop a line to all of those 150,000 people and say, Hey, Janus, as a full member, I'd, I'd be doing this from the beach, I should think. But, um, it, that hasn't been possible. So it's a process really. And, and I've, I've been using, um. Tools to continue to engage with the people once they've joined the LinkedIn group, um, some of which is automated and.
Encourage them to come to our events. The events are, are event, are effectively the second stage. An awful lot of people who come to the events join because they're, they, they, they like what they've experienced. So that's, yeah. No marketing budget. Uh, I am the marketing team and it, it's a combination of, um.
Continuing to engage with, engage with people once they've joined as a, a free member in the LinkedIn group and some automation to make to help that alone.
[00:09:07] Converting Free Members To Paid Members
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[00:09:07] Jason Caffrey: So what, um, are the, can we unpack the challenges that you have in converting your free members, your 150,000 free members into those paying. Full members because 150,000 members, 10 pound a head per month.
That's definitely the kind of money you could go and join your colleague in The Bahamas on, right?
[00:09:37] Mark Walmsley: Yeah, absolutely. Um, it's, uh. A challenge because I think at 10 pounds a month, the benefits are significant and great value for money. Okay? So it's not a value for money thing, and it's not a price thing. 10 pounds a month is too large.
Caramel lattes in central London every month. In fact, I had a call from one of our members, Cleo say, and she told me that, um, somebody had searched for her by name on Google and found the interview that we, we recorded the profile. I wrote about her and her directory entry and watched the interview and was, and got in touch, so, and that, and she said that alone, mark is worth 10 a month.
So it's not a price thing or a value for money thing. It's, it's simply an awareness thing. I, I, they have, I have limited, um, ability to, to let those people know that this is, this full membership is an option and LinkedIn groups are a little bit fire and forget for people. Um, they'll join a LinkedIn group and they, they won't engage with it and it'll sit there in the list of groups they're in and they might never come back.
Uh, so, so that's a challenge. But, um, I do what I can to, to, to let them know that this is a, an option for them. And the, the industry average for conversion from freemium to premium is across the world is three to 5%. So if I could achieve that, I'd be. Very happy. I think I'm, I'm probably, um, dragging that average down at about 0.4%.
Um, and as my neighbor said to me the other day, 150,000 members, mark, if they all paid you just a pound a year, you'd be fine. You know? Um, so it's, it, it's, it's just, I mean, one of the, the, some of the, one of the biggest challenges in marketing for me is, is awareness. At any given time, it's. View that at any given time, insufficient numbers of the right kind of people even know you exist.
Mm. So there are hun tens of thousands of people who have joined the LinkedIn group who are not even aware that there's a full member option, uh, let alone the benefits that bring that brings. So that's the challenge. Yeah. I mean, if I, and if I could press a button and send them all an email, I would.
[00:11:57] Jason Caffrey: Yes.
Yeah.
[00:11:59] Pricing Vs. Philanthropy
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[00:11:59] Jason Caffrey: So I know that the Arts and Culture Network does, how would you describe it? Philanthropic work. And you also have another challenge around balancing the ask, the amount of money that you're asking your members with what you want to do on that side of the. Business, if that's the right way to describe it.
So how do you balance those things, mark? And are you, is it something that you are trying to adjust a lot? Or what, what's the approach?
[00:12:37] Mark Walmsley: So the Philanthr, I've coined the phrase Democratic collective philanthropy because my legacy aim is that the arts and culture network becomes a global arts and culture support foundation.
Uh, a bit like a global version of the Arts Council of England, but with no application for the idea is that if a member. Has a project of their own or one that they'd like to support, give us a paragraph about it and if, we'll, we'll pull the membership and, and enough of us do that rather than that, here's the money.
Go make your art. Now, that's a struggle at this stage because of course we've only got 300 members paying 10 pounds a month at the moment. So, and that's, but that will grow. But even so, we've had the opportunity and I've been squirreling some of that away. Um, we supported, um, one of our members cancer fundraisers.
We have helped pay for legal costs for one of our members who was, um, left unpaid by a pro, an unscrupulous promoter. We've, um, we've found food and accommodation for orphaned street dancers in Uganda, and, and it's. The suggestion of our members. Um, and that will continue and we'll do it more and more as as we grow.
Um, but at the moment we're, it, it's, we aren't able to do that as much as we'd like. The, on the, in answer to your other question, any kind of membership or subscription service has to balance three things. That is, uh, the, the value of the, the value. Of the member or the perceived value and the cost.
Against the, the benefits that that brings and against the stickiness of that so that people remain members. ancestry.com is a, a shining example of getting that right. They've got 3.5 million members paying a hundred pounds a year, and it's very sticky. People don't like losing their trees, so they're a help.
They start every year with three 50 million pounds in.
That's the balance. But so I'm not concerned about, um, the, the, the stickiness is, is, is okay because if you've got a profile and an interview with me and a directory entry appearing above the fold when somebody searches for you by name at Google, and if you know that, that's no longer going to be the case, if you don't, if you're not a full member.
Sticky. And in fact several members have have said, mark, I'm thinking of canceling, and I've pointed that out to them and they've decided to remain as members. So I think it's, it's sticky to that extent and. And there's not, and I think I've got the, the benefits right, and I think I've got the price right, but it comes back to the same old problem, I'm afraid.
It's, it's, it's, how do I make these people aware that there is a full me membership option? Mm-hmm. Um, and it's a, it's a challenge. You know, I, I, there's no point advertising because they're already in my funnel. I just need to reach them. Um, I don't need, I don't need to try and get more people to join the LinkedIn group that happens on its own.
Uh, if I could just move the needle by one percentage point, that would, that would be, that would be great.
[00:15:53] Jason Caffrey: Mm-hmm. And
[00:15:53] Mark Walmsley: I'm experimenting with different ways of, of, of trying to achieve that, you know, with a. Uh, a, a lead magnet, which leads to, you know, and effectively all my job is really to get people off that platform onto mine, um, and then I can communicate with them and, um, and start that process.
But
[00:16:12] Jason Caffrey: yeah,
[00:16:12] Mark Walmsley: it's a, it's a challenge.
[00:16:13] Jason Caffrey: And, and none of the social networks want anybody to move off platform, right? So they, they, they don't encourage that, shall we say. Um.
[00:16:25] Powerful Video Profiles
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[00:16:25] Jason Caffrey: You've, you've talked about the, uh, videos that you record with four members, and, uh, I know that you essentially keep an archive on YouTube, but tell me a little bit more about those videos and, you know, what, what you want to really offer members with that.
And I guess kind of. To what extent the YouTube channel or any of of the other channels that those are presented in are able to attract people to ACN.
[00:17:04] Mark Walmsley: It's interesting. Um, I'm inundated by, um, suggestions that I haven't optimized my YouTube channel and my, my reply is I use it as a repository. It's not really, you know, with those a hundred people joining every day, I don't need to use YouTube as a repository to attract.
Um, new prospective members. It's simply a repository. So the interview are great fun. I've probably done 300, I, I would've done between two and 300 now, and I like them to, to be a diff a little different. So what I do is I, um, allow our new, our film member to introduce themselves and explain where they are and, and the work that they're doing.
I ask them what their superpowers are and where their passions lie, and then I create their fantasy cultural year. So I do that by asking them 10 easy questions, starting with, for which there are no wrong answers, starting with what's your favorite building? And I then take them on a year of cultural enjoyment based on the what they do.
So I did one this morning, um, for example, and the, uh, the, our full member, uh, Jess, she. Helps organizations get more bums on seats, theaters, festivals. That's, that's her job. So her fantasy cultural year was to travel the world, creating a global league table of how well different. Countries seem to do that at the behest of a wealthy, fictitious family foundation who paid her a huge fee.
First class all the way off we go. But I add it, add to that interview, um, a magic wand, a time machine, and a Star Trek transporter. And so it becomes, it really becomes a fantasy. And so I don't wanna give the way game away, but they're all on the member section of our, of our website, uh, wrapped around, um.
They're embedded in a profile that we write about, about that, um, that member and that people love it. They, it's, it's a nice icebreaker. We also play the this or that game as well. Tea or coffee, radio or television. Um, circle or square, see the future or change the past kind of. Chat. And those are, and it, what it does in about 20, 25 minutes is it provides people with an insight into that person that's not just talking about their work.
Uh, it, it's what makes, what makes you tick. I mean, I'm a big proponent of the get to know, you get to like, you get to trust you process. And it's part of that, I guess. So those videos are, um, a, a, a good fun. Um, and they're, they're there forever. They,
[00:19:45] Jason Caffrey: they sound like good fun, and I might have to nick some of those ideas.
Mark. I'd rather like, I'd rather like them. Yeah. Well, they
[00:19:52] Mark Walmsley: were inspired. This or that game is inspired by a childhood experience of Mindware. They would, on the television, they would get a celebrity to stand in front of the computer and the, and the, it would look as though you were the computer or looking at the, um, celebrity.
And two things would come up here and there, and they had to tap which one they wanted. And so. That was the, you know, bedroom door open or closed
[00:20:16] Jason Caffrey: toilet.
[00:20:17] Mark Walmsley: Yeah, toilet roll. Overall under, you know, it's that kind of thing just to get to, um, get to know people and, you know, I, one of them I'm taking out because I I I include radio or television and almost everybody now says radio.
It's interesting because we are all sort of watching other things on demand now, but it's, it's just a nice icebreaker. Um, and it's an informal conversation between friends that got recorded. And so, um, and if somebody suggests a building or a, a location or an artist or a book that we don't, I don't recognize, we whip it out on Google and show people yeah.
Where it is. So, yeah, it's, it's good fun.
[00:20:56] Jason Caffrey: It sounds like a lot of fun. By the way. I think you can take the toilet roll question out 'cause everyone knows it's over. Definitely over. Well not if
[00:21:03] Mark Walmsley: you've got pets and young children. It's not.
[00:21:08] Jason Caffrey: Yeah. If you've got, oh, well, bets are off with young children and pets, I think.
Yeah.
[00:21:13] LinkedIn Vs. The Rest
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[00:21:13] Jason Caffrey: Okay. So, um, returning, if I may, to the funnel, because you said, you know, neighbors have said to you, why not optimize the YouTube channel? And a question in my mind is, have you been tempted to. Jump rails to another platform, Facebook, for instance, or some other platform where it would just be somewhat easier for you to move people along or contact them more easily, whatever it may be, to, you know, up that conversion rate and move people through your funnel.
[00:21:55] Mark Walmsley: Yes, I, I'm not sure. Yeah, I'm, I mean, in an ideal world, I'd be equally active on all of those platforms, but I'm a proponent of a rather more practical approach. It's called, um, minimalist marketing. So it's based, it's my program, it's based on three buckets, and you can only put one thing in each bucket. I.
Um, in the first bucket goes a very specific product or service that you wish to offer in the second bucket, inspired by Seth Godin is your smallest, viable audience for that product or service. And then in the third bucket goes one channel only through which to reach those people and tell them about that service.
Now, when I started the Arts and Culture Network, it was, it was no accident that it was a LinkedIn group rather than a Facebook. If it had been a Facebook group, um, it, we might be in a very different situation now, but that's not where my per personal footprint was. Um, I don't have 32,000 followers on Facebook.
I do want LinkedIn.
[00:22:53] Jason Caffrey: Can I, can I just interrupt for a moment? When you say, just broadly, do you think that had you started out on Facebook, you might be in a better position or not such a good position now?
[00:23:06] Mark Walmsley: It rather depends, and I haven't investigated this in any great detail without having to pay for it.
Um, it rather depends whether or not it's easier to connect and communicate with people on a Facebook group that it is on a LinkedIn group. Both platforms, I'm sure want to retain people in their, in their, um, universe. So, I don't know. It's an inter really interesting question. It's a great question and, but I, I suspect I would've had similar difficulty.
Um, uh, I mean, I, I wrote a blog post 20 years ago, uh, or an article that suggested that email was likely to be superseded by messaging in private networks, and that's already happening. We've got WhatsApp, we've got Facebook Messenger, we've got LinkedIn messages. The great thing about those three is that they get through, there's no deliverability issue.
The, the problem with it is that they don't like you to do it in bulk. Um, so if I was having to private message everybody who joined a, all the a hundred people who joined a Facebook group every day, I'd have the same scale problem, I think. Um, and because that the automation seems to be more advanced for LinkedIn, um, then I, I.
And it's a, it's a really interesting thought because back in 2010, LinkedIn was still a little bit, here's my cv, give me a job in a bank. Um, with, with 1.1 billion members now, um, on LinkedIn, the, that, that the arts and culture world has embraced it as I've seen myself. If you're over 40, you're probably not on TikTok.
If you're under 40, you're probably not on Facebook. But if you're a professional, then LinkedIn is probably an acceptable platform to, with which you can engage. And so I, I probably did the right thing by accident.
[00:25:00] Jason Caffrey: Yeah. Accident and negligence. Mark, it's gonna. It's your hallmark.
[00:25:06] Mark Walmsley: That's, that's gonna be the title of my, my How to Start a business using only Negligence and, um, accidents.
[00:25:12] Jason Caffrey: Yes. Yeah. Wonderful. Love it. Love it. Um,
[00:25:16] Zero Budget Growth
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[00:25:16] Jason Caffrey: at the, at the very top, I said that you had built this network, not with a huge budget, and you've talked about just your buckets and essentially focusing, it's about focusing. What do you wanna do? Who do you wanna reach? What's the channel you're going to achieve that with?
And I mean, what, you know, how much budget do you apply to? None Grow? None to growing ACN. Yeah, tell me.
[00:25:46] Mark Walmsley: It's, it's, it's utterly organic. Um, the things I pay for are probably a few hundred qui to Wix for the website. I do pay for Sales Navigator on LinkedIn, so I'm paying about 70 pounds a month for LinkedIn.
Um, but I don't do any advertising. And or I don't do any sponsored posts, uh, at all. It's, uh, I'm, I'm very fortunate in that respect. It's like there's, there's gold sitting at the top of the, in this funnel. It's just, it's not easy, uh, to, to, to drag people down it and throwing money at it is not necessarily the answer.
Mm-hmm. And unless I could have some, even if I could employ somebody to do nothing but write to our members and tell 'em there's a. Um, a full membership option, I could only do a certain amount of that per day because of the limits that LinkedIn imposes on, on daily activity. Mm-hmm. So it's, it's like there is, it, it feels a little bit like there's this world of opportunity, but my access to it is, is, is restricted.
Um, but no, no, that's, you know, I don't. We don't have a budget, um, for anything. Even the meetings that I host, I pay for Zoom, obviously, but that's only 15 pounds a month.
[00:26:56] Jason Caffrey: Yeah.
[00:26:56] Mark Walmsley: And, and the face-to-face meetings are all invent, uh, uh, at the Royal Society of Arts in London. And as a fellow, I don't have to pay for the meeting space.
[00:27:05] Jason Caffrey: Yeah.
[00:27:05] Mark Walmsley: So, um, yeah, none it, it was less than, not lots,
[00:27:10] Jason Caffrey: less than not lots. We'll put that as the subtitle of the book. Um.
[00:27:16] Why Arts & Culture?
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[00:27:16] Jason Caffrey: So I think at this point we should probably explain why. Of all the things that you might have done, you set up an arts and culture network because you've mentioned your marketing career and the branding career, but there was another one wasn't there?
Tell us
[00:27:36] Mark Walmsley: the music career
[00:27:37] Jason Caffrey: please.
[00:27:38] Mark Walmsley: Yes, in fact I do. It was kind of a, thinking back, it was a toss up between pharmaceutical marketing and arts and culture actually, because I was doing a lot of work in that sector, and if I was to do another one, that's probably where I'd go.
[00:27:52] Jason Caffrey: Mm-hmm. But
[00:27:52] Mark Walmsley: not until this one's happily airborne and, and doing, um, thing.
But yeah, my background, I trained as a percussionist at the Guild Hall School of Music and Drama in London. And spent the subsequent years freelancing as an orchestral percussionist. So playing in West End shows in the Pit. I was the number five percussion in the city of Birmingham Symphony Orchestra, um, for, for the best part of 15 years on and off as a freelancer.
And so that's always been, um, and I taught drums at schools around London when I was younger. Love it. And I miss the teaching enormously and. But I read Cain and Abel when I was at Music college and that in, uh, by Jeffrey Archer. And that inspired me to set up some kind of business. And so I thought, right, I'll, I'm in a music college, I'm gonna set up a music agency and see if I can book guys into, I.
Into work. Work. And as luck would have it, I was in the student union office as the social secretary at the time, and the phone rang shortly after I had made this decision. And it was someone from Estee Lauder and they had been, they were doing a. A two week promotion on the run up to Christmas on the ground floor at Herod's.
And uh, they thought it might be nice to have a harpist playing Christmas carols. So I leapt on that and said, I can organize that for you. I do charge a 20% booking commission is the hunter. All right? They said yes. Um, and I went. When she was on her first day, I thought, this is great. It it, I made 150 pound profit, I think, which I used to buy letterhead and business cards.
Um, and I, but I thought I'd better go and just check Everything was all right. And it was in Herod's run up to Christmas, and there I was watching, um, the Harpis playing and it all seemed to be going very well. And then, um, Mohammed Al Fayed walked into the department with his four bodyguards, um, walked up to her.
Waited for her to stop, had a chat. And she pointed at me and he came over with his bodyguards and, and, and said, um, this, uh, did you arrange this music? I said, I did, sir. I thought, I better say at
[00:30:07] Jason Caffrey: the time,
[00:30:08] Mark Walmsley: um, Estee Lauder asked me to find a harpist to play. He said, I love it. I'm a big supporter of, uh, live music.
Would you please come up to my office? And I thought, okay. And, um, I walked out to that meeting with. 8,000 pounds a month of business.
[00:30:24] Jason Caffrey: Wow. '
[00:30:25] Mark Walmsley: cause um, he decide, he said, I'm, I'm going to insist that the four locations on the ground floor in the perfumery and cosmetics departments that have two week promotions every two weeks, um, I'm going to insist that they have some live music in it, and I'm going to insist that they book it through you.
So I went from zero to 8,000 pounds a month, um, literally overnight. I was.
Many years
parade. Yeah, it was. But that, and that became, that's what really kicked off the music agency side of things. And then that became an event organizing company. So I think my, one of my favorite coups was I booked the Albert Hall for Knight Frank and Ru's, um, centenary.
[00:31:19] Jason Caffrey: Who, who are Knight Frank and Rutley
[00:31:22] Mark Walmsley: Knight.
Knight Frank. They are now, they're a big estate agency in London.
[00:31:25] Jason Caffrey: Oh yes. Yeah,
[00:31:26] Mark Walmsley: yeah. Um, kf. You'll see on their, on their and and I, they had a thousand people coming from all over the country. I, they, they'd hired me to organize the event. We lifted the floor like they do in the tennis, um, so that we could get all the tables on.
And I was the master of ceremonies and had organized it all the entertainment. But I managed to persuade the crown of states to let me put a sold sign on the Royal Albert Hall.
[00:31:50] Jason Caffrey: Wonderful.
[00:31:51] Mark Walmsley: So, uh, but they only let, they said you can only light it up for an hour. So that was good fun. And I did that a lot and I loved doing that.
That was great, great fun. And so that, yeah, so that's the, the, the parallel career, music and entertainment really actually doing it.
[00:32:07] Jason Caffrey: Yes.
[00:32:08] Mark Walmsley: Having played the triangle at Carnegie Hall, I had to quit. 'cause that's,
[00:32:11] Jason Caffrey: that's
[00:32:11] Mark Walmsley: as, that's as good as it gets.
[00:32:14] Jason Caffrey: Wonderful. And,
[00:32:16] Profit Plus Philanthropy
---
[00:32:16] Jason Caffrey: okay. So that I think, fills in the picture of, of how you.
Found yourself running the Arts and Culture network. I want to get into the, um, philanthropy side if we can Mark and at, at what point, mark, did you think that that was something that you wanted ACN to do and be.
[00:32:44] Mark Walmsley: Um, when I was diagnosed with bowel cancer two years ago
[00:32:49] Jason Caffrey: mm-hmm.
[00:32:50] Mark Walmsley: Um, it's a bit of a, you know, I was very fortunate.
Um, I, we caught it early. I went from diagnosis to all clear in eight weeks with just surgery and I'm still fine now, which is great. Um, that was three years ago now, but it's one of those moments where you. You have that kind of reset moment and you think, what am I gonna leave behind if I hadn't been able, if I hadn't been so fortunate, what's left of me?
Um, so that started me thinking then, well, perhaps we could become that, um, support foundation and be a bit, um, philanthropic and help those people. Um, excuse me. But it also occurred to me that the people doing the most exciting work. Creatively or in the arts or cultural heritage fields are quite often the least well equipped to apply for funding effect successfully.
An insider told me that if you apply for funding from the arts council, you've probably got a 15 to one chance of of being funded. And then there's a very good chance you won't get it all. Um, and unlike the horse races, even if you get it, you don't get your stake back. 'cause you could quite easily spend 5,000 pounds pitching for a 50,000 pound grant in time and consultancy.
Um, so. Might be better taking your 5,000 pounds to new market races or helt them this
[00:34:15] Jason Caffrey: week,
[00:34:16] Mark Walmsley: um, and putting it on a, a horse running at 15 to one. Uh, if you win, you'll get your 5,000 pounds back. Um, so
[00:34:25] Jason Caffrey: I that, that's actually quite a resting thought that you, you, you know, might, you might actually be better, you know, walking into the bookmakers with your seed fund.
Mm, yeah.
[00:34:42] Mark Walmsley: Well, the odds are the same. If the odds are the same, the odds are the same. But with a, with a, with grant funding, you don't get your state back. Yeah, you've spent 5,000 pounds on consultants trying to get you this work. Um, and if you did, if you're not successful. You, you, you've lost the same amount.
Okay? So it's, it, it's, it, it, it you. And, but if, but the, the advantage is that if you are successful at num, you will get your 5,000 pounds back, plus the, plus the hundred and 50,000 that you applied for whatever, or whatever it is, 15 to one.
So I wanted to start a process that would be democratic in its approach, uh, but not have people I've seen arts council application forms and I've, I, I'm happy never to see one again. Um, there's also the, the, the challenge of the box ticking exercises that you, you have to go through and somebody you know, and then.
And if you then think about a group of young artists in Nigeria who collect lost flip flops to do sculpture work, they're not going to be. They're not. It doesn't work. I'm sorry. You can't ask those people who are creative. I. Um, to go through a, it's like asking a right brain person to go through a left brain process to get money to be more right brained again, you know, it, it, it doesn't really make sense to me, so I would much rather it be a Democratic.
Tell us a paragraph about what you want to do. You know, I wanna, I wanna set up, um, uh, an artist retreat at the RA Palace in Granada, and I want only chil, I want people to come who are unemployed. That might be it. That sounds great. What do we think, everyone? Yes. Yeah. Here's the money. Off you go. You know, and I don't want to know anything about it afterwards.
You know, I was chair at a cultural charity for a, uh, three years recently, and I've seen the process and the hoops that you have to go through in those circumstances, and which is why I don't intend the Arts and Culture Nature Network ever to become a charity, a registered charity. The, I don't think the benefits, um, outweigh the workload.
That's my view, you know, so, I mean, I might ask ans answer that differently when we're making a huge amount of money in the future, but, uh, at the moment it doesn't make any sense, the burden. It's too burdensome. Mm-hmm. But, um, so I, I just like the idea of. By the end of the decade, and I can't believe we're halfway through already.
Um, the, we should be doing around two 20,000 pounds a month in, in revenue from members who've had all of those benefits and are happy to pay, pay to continue to be members. I don't need all that. And so. No, I'm sliding disgracefully towards semi-retirement here. Um, and this is, and if I wanted to put my feet up at that point, I could say, right.
Someone else take this over please. Um, and can carry on the good work. Mm-hmm. But it, it, it's just a, you know, and the other thing is that is the type of thing that we'll fund because one of our members, full members moved from, uh, South Africa to Canada, effectively negating her medical insurance in both.
Territories only to find out that she had a rare form of breast cancer and a five-year-old son in tow and was working as an arts administrator. Now, I'm afraid the arts council's not gonna help her. It's a, it's a medical issue, but it's, it's, but it, it's just as important, if not more so to her. So we did help.
And I, I, I want to just fill the gaps really in that, in that, um, in that funding. Uh, but similarly, I, I, I, I'm a little bit spiky when it comes to the, when people create challenging work, there's an awful lot of work. Being produced in the art world, music world that is, uh, introspective and, um, lacking in my view, um, the ability to communicate what it's all about to people.
Mm-hmm. Um, when I was a percussionist at the music college, we would play the pieces written by student composers. Um, and we did one piece and it was written in four 16. Which for those who understand music time signatures is four semiquavers per bar, which means there's an awful lot of notes and lines and things on the page.
It's impossible to read, site read, um, and I button hold the student composer afterwards and I said, I imagine you, you wrote that in four 16. Um. To keep us on our toes. Was that the intention? He said, no, no, no. I wrote it for a com composition competition and if I'd written it in four four, it wouldn't have made the cup.
And I thought, you know, yeah. And, but there are exceptions to the rule. There's some wonderful music being written that is both challenging and, um, accessible, if that makes sense. And so I, I'm more than happy for the arts and culture network to fund. Um, adventurous work, but I, I'll be happiest when it makes sense, you know, for, for as many people as possible.
[00:40:09] With Hindsight
---
[00:40:09] Jason Caffrey: Mark, we're at the end of our time and the last question that I want to ask you is, if you were starting Arts and Culture Network now today, what would you do differently?
[00:40:28] Mark Walmsley: Wow. That's a great question. Um,
I would probably, assuming I had similar levels of footprint across all different social media platforms, I think I probably would be on Facebook. Um, and I would be inclined to, to appeal to a more younger audience as well with lots happening on Instagram and TikTok and I, I think that would be, I've had conversations with colleagues who are trying to do something similar.
I'm more than happy to share my experience with them, um, in those circumstances, yes, I think I would, I would probably start, I would start it on Facebook, but it would, but I. It would take me probably 15, 20 years to get to where I was able to be at back in 2010 with a, a big, I mean, I, I remember I got a message from LinkedIn when they hit a billion users saying, saying, thanks for being the, in the first a hundred thousand.
And, um, because I was an early adopter in those digital days. But that's the first thing I would do and I would. I would, it may be that there is a better balance between the, the, the benefits of membership and the cost of that. The, I, I've been urged by several people to do a premium premium, which might be 45 pounds a month, for example, for which you get even more.
But, um, in terms of content, and I know that's where your expertise lies, um, I, I followed the plan. You know, create a community and let the community create the content. And, you know, hundreds of posts on LinkedIn every day. I, I don't have to do that. That's the, the conversation is happening without me. So that's, and, and I love the fact that we do rather quirky interviews for the YouTube channel.
Um, but it's a great question. Uh, and I think Slack, probably Facebook and, uh, because I think LinkedIn still has that vestige of. Professional white collar sort of membership base.
[00:42:49] Jason Caffrey: Yeah.
[00:42:50] Mark Walmsley: Which it, it, it, it doesn't really have, it can't have, if it's got 1.1 billion users. Um, but Facebook I think is more, is, is more of a relational relationship kind of platform with people.
The other thing I would, I'm thinking of doing now, actually WhatsApp that there, the, and that might be the answer to my. By prayers, you know, there are some very clever things you can do with WhatsApp.
[00:43:16] Jason Caffrey: Mm-hmm.
[00:43:17] Mark Walmsley: Um, you can, where you can communicate in bulk with enormous numbers of people who think they're the only one getting the message
[00:43:26] Jason Caffrey: because it's completely direct.
[00:43:28] Mark Walmsley: It's all direct and they can't, they can reply to you, but they, it's not like having a WhatsApp, WhatsApp group. We do have a WhatsApp group, but I can't have a WhatsApp group for 150,000 people because it would just be carnage. Um, and, uh, I, I'd spend my whole life monitoring it. But yeah, WhatsApp for business is worth looking at for, for, uh, replacing email.
[00:43:52] Key Takeaways
---
[00:43:52] Jason Caffrey: I really enjoyed speaking with Mark. It was good fun. It was a relaxed conversation and he was really open as well. And my takeaways from our conversation are, first, exploit your assets. Now, I don't suppose many of us have got a forgotten LinkedIn group with 18,000 members, you know, tucked down the back of the sofa somewhere, but I.
Mark's story highlights the potential of overlooked assets to drive your digital marketing and maybe even your entire business. Reviewing and reevaluating your existing resources, whether that's social media, email lists, even past projects. It's a really worthwhile exercise because. They could hold untapped potential for growth and engagement.
Second, build an engaged community. The arts and culture network relies heavily on building a strong community. Their regular networking events both online. And face-to-face are crucial for engagement, and this underscores the value of creating opportunities for your audience to connect, collaborate, and build relationships.
Community is powerful, especially if it's built around a personal brand as Mark has done. With the ACN, it can be really tempting to focus on metrics like impressions, views, or downloads, but in my opinion, engagement is where the true value lies. And third, nurture owned media. I'm fascinated by the challenge mark faces in converting free members.
To paid members. He's really candid about this and successful as the ACN is. I was struck by the size of the hurdle. Mark now faces in reaching his target audience on LinkedIn. The group has served him really, really well, but it's no longer the best vehicle for him to achieve those paid conversions and.
His open frustration at not being able to communicate effectively with his prospects at scale is to me, an important reminder of the need to nurture owned media channels where you can reach your audience on your own terms. So to recap, the three takeaways for me from my conversation with Mark are first.
Exploit your assets. Second, build an engaged community and third nurture owned media. That's it for this edition. Do go and find Mark on LinkedIn. He's a really friendly, engaging guy and if you are an arts professional, in my opinion, the ACN is well worth a look. All of the links are in the description.
I'm Jason Caffrey. Thanks for joining me for the Content Mavericks Club. I. Until next time, goodbye.
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TOPICS COVERED
00:00 - Intro
01:06 - ACN 101: What Does It Do?
04:53 - Leveraging A Forgotten 18k LinkedIn Group
09:06 - Converting Free Members To Paid Members
11:57 - Pricing Vs. Philanthropy
16:32 - Powerful Video Profiles
21:05 - LinkedIn Vs. The Rest
25:15 - Zero Budget Growth
27:10 - Why Arts & Culture?
32:13 - Profit Plus Philanthropy
40:06 - With Hindsight
43:49 - Key Takeaways
Get the key strategies that transformed a forgotten LinkedIn group into a multinational network
Learn how Mark leveraged existing assets, built a strong community, and continues to navigate the challenges of online growth.
And discover how his unconventional strategy led to a multinational network that increasingly supports artists through philanthropic grants.
Download your cheat sheet now for zero pounds.
This Episode’s Guest
Mark Walmsley FRSA is the Founder and Director of the Arts and Culture Network, a global community for arts and culture professionals.
With a diverse background spanning performance, event management, and arts administration, Mark is passionate about connecting individuals and fostering collaboration within the creative industries.
Based in the UK, he also works with Chufd, a creative social enterprise nurturing emerging talent.
His unique approach to community building and his vision for a democratically-led support foundation are at the heart of the Arts and Culture Network's mission.
Mark Walmsley features on The Content Mavericks Club podcast, hosted by Creative Kin CEO Jason Caffrey
Takeaway Edition: Time To Ditch The Paid Community Playbook?
What does the discovery of penicillin, x-rays and superglue have to do with growing a paid community?
Sometimes happy accidents open unexpected paths to remarkable success.
In this Takeaway Edition of The Content Mavericks Club, CEO of Creative Kin CEO Jason Caffrey extracts the core lessons from his in-depth interview with Mark Walmsley, the visionary behind the ACN.
The Content Mavericks Club
The Content Mavericks Club is a regular podcast featuring creators and entrepreneurs who share the challenges and successes they navigate in their business and digital marketing.
Each episode offers actionable content marketing insights for content professionals and business leaders who want to accelerate the return on their digital marketing.
With real-world lessons from real-world experience, The Content Mavericks Club won’t just help you raise your content game.
It will help you overcome personal and professional hurdles too.
Hosted by Creative Kin CEO Jason Caffrey.
About Jason Caffrey
Jason Caffrey is the host of the Content Mavericks Club and CEO of Creative Kin, a content production and marketing company that drives growth for ambitious brands through the power of podcasting.
Jason's mission at Creative Kin is to help businesses of all sizes craft compelling podcasts and fully repurpose them to elevate their content strategies.
Through the Content Mavericks Club, he shares insights from leading content creators and marketers, providing valuable takeaways for those looking to enhance their own content game.
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Episode Credits
Produced by Creative Kin
Recorded at Creative Kin podcasting studio London
Music: Andriy Mashtalir
From the Creative Kin blog
