Building A Podcast Community

PodcastingNon-ProfitArts and CultureSEOSponsorshipCommunity

4 Mar

What does it mean to build a community around a podcast?

Matthew Butler built a podcast about drug and alcohol addiction into a 500 downloads-per-episode show that brought a major event to his home city of Hull.

He leveraged celebrities and influencers like Liberty X singer Michelle Heaton and BBC Radio London presenter Claira Hermet to help get his podcast in front of a bigger audience.

And with some impressive stats under his belt, Matthew quickly persuaded service commissioners at Hull City Council to invest in what he was doing.

“Our service manager heard the podcast, she was over the moon with it... Our marketing budget quickly doubled, once they saw what we was doing and when we told them what resources we needed. ”

— Matthew Butler

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Building A Podcast Community feat. Matthew Butler
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[00:01:02] Introducing Matthew Butler
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[00:01:02] Jason: Matthew. Thanks for joining us. It's great to have you with us.
[00:01:05] Matthew: Thank you for inviting me to be on. Nice to be on the opposite end of the podcast and be a guest for once actually instead.
[00:01:12] Jason: Well I'm going to get into that with you because you've been working on your podcast for a couple of years now, but before I get stuck into how that has all worked for you, what I'd really like you to do is just give us a bit of context and introduce Change Grow Live Hull and introduce the podcast. So just tell us briefly about what Change Grow Live Hull does.
[00:01:35] Matthew: So Change Grow Live actually started as a national thing. We actually started in Sussex back in 1977 and it was primarily a housing charity. And the idea being that it was seeing a pattern of people that was coming out of prison. offending and then going back into prison because they were homeless and needed a roof over their head.
So people got together and basically it all started with a small house in Sussex. And since then it's just become a major player in adult social care across the country, really. So the one in Hull specifically, they got the contracts here for substance misuse services. That's the contract that it's had in the city here in Hull for I think nearly eight years now Maybe actually longer it's got to be about nine years now we've had the contract. So we started as a substance misuse charity here in Hull and originally it was for criminal justice only so people had offended, been arrested, been tested positive under the influence of drugs and alcohol, they'd be given a court order, which was either a drug rehabilitation requirement or an alcohol treatment requirement to come into treatment as an alternative to go into prison, where again, we talk about that continuing that pattern of behavior and coming out and doing it all over again.
[00:02:37] Jason: Before we get into the discussion about the Believe In People podcast, quickly tell us, how do people access your services
[00:02:45] Matthew: Originally, again, it was court orders only. We took on the community arm of the contract about five years ago, I'd say, and the idea being now that anybody with a substance misuse problem can refer themselves into treatment in quite a simple way, just by going online and searching our service and filling in the forms there.
Because I think what we've seen really is, I've worked here for nine years now, and what I've seen since being here is that we're looking at substance misuse less as a criminal justice element and actually seeing it more as a health care and a health need, which is nice, really, when we're looking at that changing stigma and tackling stigma and what it means to be in addiction or have addiction problems.
It isn't just criminals. Anyone can have a substance misuse problem, but we also encompass low level stuff. So people are just worried that maybe they're having one or two glasses of wine on the night that they shouldn't be having or they want to cut back on their drinking. We've got advice services for all those things as well.
[00:03:40] Matthew's podcast: Believe In People
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[00:03:40] Jason: And introduce for us the Believe In People podcast. Tell people about what you do on the show and how it's going.
[00:03:49] Matthew: Yeah, so the Believe In People podcast again, it comes back to stigma the idea that anyone with an addiction problem Criminals or they fit a certain stereotype and I think even if we look at modern media when you see the drug user in the TV drama it's your stereotypical person, but as someone who's worked in addiction services, it's not always the case.
Of course, stereotypes exist for a reason, and there will be people that do fit those stereotypes. But you've also got people coming in such as doctors with a prescription painkiller addictions, nurses coming through the door with alcoholism. It can start in those professions where stress, anxiety, and of course, for me, when I work with people, it was never "so why did you start taking heroin?" It was more " what are you trying to escape from?", I guess, because if we look at addiction, of course, some addictions are more acceptable than others, but we've got addictions to sex, masturbation, video games, gambling addiction's everywhere. So it's less about why the addiction and more what are you trying to escape?
And like these are the conversations that we have on the podcast, but the podcast came around ultimately to challenge that stereotype and that stigma of what it means to be in addiction and the idea being that everybody has a story to tell. You'll probably heard of this before but the one thing that I often hear is nobody wakes up and decides I want to be a heroin addict No one wakes up and decides I want to have an addiction to alcohol.
There's something that happens In that process between a normal lifestyle and then that, and again, it can come down to childhood trauma. So when I first started working addiction services, I had no interest in addiction. To be honest, I was 23, 24. My car insurance used to cost me about a grand for the year and I couldn't do it just doing part time and bumming about the way that I used to. So I took an office job.
I started on the reception desk and there was a woman that came in. And the naivety in me, and it's not something that I'd ask and in terms of like boundaries and all the stuff that we do learn, but I just said to her, she's come in, she had a black eye, and looked like crap, and I just said to her, there's only me and her in the reception area, can I just ask, why did you start taking drugs in the first place?
And there was a little pause where she looked at me and then she stood up and came to the desk and she just told me this horrific story about how she was her dad had sexually abused her but her dad's friends her uncles had sexually abused her.
It was an awful story, and I don't think I've ever heard a story so bad in my time since being here. But there was a moment when I listened to that story and thought, Christ, if I had even gone through a fraction of that, I would be a heroin addict too. I would be escaping too. The idea that the same people who are supposed to protect you are the people that are abusing you.
And it was one of the moments where I thought, if more people knew this woman's story, she wouldn't face the judgement and the stigma and the prejudice that she does.
[00:06:32] Matthew: And I think the ethos of us as an organisation, as Change Grow Live, as the Renew Service here in Hull, is that everybody's got a story to tell and it's alright in saying that, but how do we get those stories out there? And that was where the podcast came in was like, why don't we share these stories?
So during lockdown people that was really relying on mutual aid groups. So your Alcoholics Anonymous groups your Narcotics Anonymous groups wasn't able to attend their support groups and a lot of people went through lapses and relapses during lockdown because they didn't have that support network there.
They wasn't hearing those messages of recovery and it was something I wanted to do in lockdown, but didn't have the resources to do it.
[00:07:08] Believe in People - the goals for the podcast
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[00:07:08] Jason: And when you started the podcast Believe in People, did you have a set of goals for it? Were there specific things that you wanted to achieve With it, because you're an organisation with a limited set of resources, you're the community lead there, you have a task, you have goals for your job, were there goals that you attached to the podcast,
[00:07:31] Matthew: It was as simple as getting these stories out there as cheaply as possible. At the end of the day, we are a charity. We do, as you've said, we do have limited resources. So it was really about getting the stories out as easily as possible and as cheaply as possible. and that's what we set out to do.
And I think our, as a service, were commissioned by the local authority, we're commissioned by the Hull city council. When they heard some of those early podcasts, they was absolutely over the moon with it. our service manager heard the podcast, she was over the moon with it and thought this is great.
Our marketing budget quickly doubled, once they saw what we was doing and when we told them what resources we needed to do.
[00:08:05] How Matthew got investment buy-in for his podcast
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[00:08:05] Jason: So once the people that were commissioning your services heard what you were doing with the podcast, they invested in it.
[00:08:14] Matthew: Oh yeah, yeah, when we talk about investing it is, the money doesn't specifically go to the podcast, it's a department at the end of the day, and that covers everything from all the community resources that we use from non alcoholic drinks to uniforms and hoodies and all those sort of things but of course, we've been able to invest some of that money into the podcast studio as well, and I think one of our early wins was quite early on in the podcast we had a chance to meet him with Michelle Heaton from Liberty X And I didn't realize she was in recovery at this point we'd already recorded two or three podcast episodes I think it was like there was a handful of them that we'd done when I got home my wife had said oh did you speak to Michelle from LibertyX I was like no I shouldn't oh well she's in recovery I was like you're joking you know she'd have been a good one to talk to So we reached out to our agent the following week and we didn't think we'd earn nothing from it, but there was a Noughties Night at the the then Bonus Arena in Hull, and uh, she was there, and she'd agreed to come and speak with us, which I thought, this is going to be absolutely fantastic. And from there, that was when we got a lot of eyes on the podcast. And I think one of the analogies we've used rising tide lifts all boats. And that's exactly what's happened because those episodes that only had like 50 listens, now had 350 listens, they'd gone up so much.
And we realised there's something in there about speaking with people who have profile and influence. And when we decided to reach out to the name that was on everybody's lips in terms of Drug and alcohol treatment services, and the commissioner of these services was Professor Dame Carol Black, who'd written the 10 year drug strategy.
And we reached out to her, and we didn't think we'd learn nothing from it, and she was like, Yeah, absolutely, I'd love to talk to you. episodes were quite close together, and what we had was an interest from the general public from I guess that story of a celebrity who'd gone through alcoholism and come out of it into recovery, but then we also had the buy in from commissioners and the, I'm using quotation marks, the important people, because we had a professor Dame Carol Black on it.
And that was when we was realizing that, hang on, getting this from all angles here. so the strength of the podcast is there's something on there for everyone. If you're a professional involved in the criminal justice system, in healthcare, there's something in there for you.
If you're somebody in recovery, there's something in there for you as well. So we try and vary the guests that we have on and we'll cover lots of things. We've had people on from the LGBTQ plus community. We've had someone who was transgender talking about the difficulties that they faced going from not knowing their identity and feeling trapped in the wrong body.
And coped with that through alcoholism and ended up in addiction. it's such a wide range of stories. And again, more celebrities in Kevin Caley Watts, he's been in recovery for 25 years. We had another chance meeting with him, we got him on the podcast, and that was great because again, more eyes on it.
Rise in Time lifts all boats. All the other episodes with local people from Hull, more people was now listening to their stories as well.
[00:11:03] Who is Mathew's ideal listener?
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[00:11:03] Jason: And so who then is the ideal listener? Who do you most want to reach with the show?
[00:11:10] Matthew: In terms of who we want to reach most, let's see, it's a tricky one. The tricky one, because I think in a way I like to say it's, it's for people with substance misuse problems. A big part of this is educating other people on what substance misuse is as well. There's a very 50 50 how it's so beneficial for people who are involved in, in the madness, they might call it, to see a way out and to hear these stories of recovery.
But it's equally important for people who haven't had addiction problems to listen to these stories as well and go, Oh right, now I get it. That's why that person experienced homelessness, because how often we do this, we walk past homeless people and we don't necessarily think nothing of it. It's just a casualty of society.
It's just something that happens. People are homeless. Forgetting that, hang on, that person is an individual, he's a human being, she's a human being. What happened for them to become homeless? Because I couldn't understand it, because even now, first if I lost everything, I've got plenty of friends that I'd like to think would put me up, I can't imagine experiencing it myself, and I think a lot of us feel that way. You might feel that way yourself. If you fell on hard times, you'd like to think maybe family or friends would pick you up. So when you see homeless people, it's almost like, Oh, well, they must have deserved it to be homeless because how can other people not help them in that circumstance and that's kind of what we do because we, rather than accepting that maybe a good person has fallen on hard times and we should help that person.
I think it's in a way what we do is we internalize it, that they probably in some way deserve to be there. it really is 50 50. I want it to inspire people who are still in addiction, but I also want to raise awareness to people who don't understand what addiction is.
[00:12:48] Hard to reach audiences - is the podcast the right tool?
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[00:12:48] Jason: In your professional profile, Matthew, you have this phrase that I've seen, hard to reach people. And it's something that charities of all stripes are striving to do. What does that mean for the Believe in People podcast, when it comes to trying to get to people that you might not otherwise, how successful is the podcast at doing that?
[00:13:15] Matthew: 50 thing. And you either like them and they go up or you don't like them and they go down with services and with people that often need them We're already on the back foot. They probably don't like us because in the past they may have been failed by services
if we look at specifically for treatment now, the model is get people out of crime into treatment. And into recovery whereas before it was just get them out of crime and into treatment Get them on a prescription because if they're on a prescription, they're not committing crime and therefore everything's better in terms of hard to reach I think people with An addiction, specifically to heroin, are an ageing population. It's very rare that you get someone in their 20s coming in with a heroin addiction. It's often people in their 40s, 50s, and even 60s that have heroin addictions, and that's based on lifestyles and culture of the 70s, 80s, and the phrase was heroin chic, where it was almost a look, to look like you was addicted to heroin, it's an aging population. And I think because of there's a general mistrust of them, that's where they become hard to reach people. And homeless people often was considered hard to reach.
So if you ask me now, Mattie, when's your next dentist appointment? I couldn't tell you. I have a very stable life, but I could be due there tomorrow. I wouldn't have a clue. So when you're in a lifestyle of chaos and madness and addiction, the idea that we expect people to remember to come to their appointments once every two weeks.
And if they don't come to their appointments, then they could be sanctioned for it in the sense of there's no one to see now you guys have to miss a dose of your methadone and come back tomorrow. And these are models that I used to see even four or five years ago. I think we're a lot better right now than what we used to be a lot more understanding of where people are in that.
But even that made them quite hard to reach would consider Most of our service users to be hard to reach people In terms of the podcast, I guess this is what we're trying to do.
And, and, you know, someone said to me what about homeless people that can't listen to the podcast? It was like, look, I get it. I'd like to say this is a resource for everybody, but the reality is it's not necessarily a resource for everyone. It's a resource for people that?
are able to access it.
It's not like when we create something on social media or a digital version and they say well what about, people who aren't online and we can create offline alternatives, there is no offline alternatives. go down the street and give somebody transcripts you know, of a podcast series and say look I know you can't listen online but here you go mate, is this a So it is quite a difficulty.
I think best thing that the podcast can do really is raise awareness around why these people are maybe hard to reach. And I guess looking at it from when we talk about how professionals often listen to this podcast as well, and people from our commissioning team on the whole city council, they might get a bit of an insight as to, Oh, that's why that's happening.
And that's why that's happening because there is a gap between frontline workers working with these people directly and the commissioners. they want outcomes and targets, and I understand it. If they're investing as much money as they are into services like this, they're going to want to see a return on that investment.
So I completely understand why they are target driven and those things exist for a reason. But think the podcast helps them see reality in these stories of the people, of people and what they're going through.
[00:16:30] RODECaster Pro Multichannel-39: Still to come on this episode of the Content Mavericks Club, how the Believe in People podcast is promoted, how the show measures success, and we'll get Matthew's top tips on podcasting for non profits. We'll be back after a short break.
[00:16:45] Which podcast promotion tactics work for Mathew's show
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[00:16:45] Jason: what I'd like to ask you now is about promoting the show and clearly targeting, if that's the right phrase, some of those high profile personalities, as you say, raises the tide and it lifts all the boats on it. But aside from that what ways do you find works best when it comes to promoting the show,
[00:17:32] Matthew: for us, it's always been a case of, we we film all our podcasts, but we don't ever post the full version of those podcasts online. The video what we tend to do is we pick, not necessarily the best, like two, three minute clip, but something that's almost got a bit of a cliffhanger to it that makes you want to listen to more.
So what we do is we create a short two to three minute video. Sometimes it's a combination of different clips. Sometimes it is just one clip of part of the story and we'll put that on social media with a little bit about what the episode is about just to give people an idea. Because again, we. Cover such a substance misuse and addiction is always at the heart of it, but we talk to two different people about different things such as from mental health to LGBTQ plus topics and so forth.
And then we'll always sponsor our posts as well. And it used to be when I first started working in digital and social media sponsored posts was always quite frowned upon. It was almost considered cheating. They said to be really organic. But what we found is we could pop maybe, a very small portion of our budget into it.
It could be 50 pounds to 100 pounds. And then that basically helps us get us into the algorithms of people's timelines. But because what we know we're sharing is good content, people are sharing that content. So even once the sponsorship finishes, it's now in the circles, people are sharing it, people are commenting on it.
So if we look at our average downloads for an episode could be anywhere between 300 to 500 per episode. What you might find is let's say it gets to 300 during the promotional period the promotion stops but then the episode will probably finish maybe another 200 plus downloads since then which shows that the paid post is getting us around 300 and the organic is still getting us like another 200 plus downloads on the episodes, which is absolutely fantastic.
So that's how we promote it I think the idea is to show a little snippet because for me as well personally when I listen to a podcast or a story I like to Get a look at the person who's actually talking. I want to know what they look like fair So i'm not just listening to this anonymous voice really so I think that helps as well You know for people like me who want to see who's actually talking in it whose voices they're actually listening to
[00:19:46] Matthew's most successful social channels for podcast promotion
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[00:19:46] Jason: And which social channels do you prefer and why do you prefer them?
[00:19:50] Matthew: So found that facebook has been the best one. the content that we're posting on there That's probably gets the best engagement. We did try using twitter for the content, but I don't know. Here's the funny thing about Twitter is, as someone, someone pointed this out to me on the phone, I said, oh, the Twitter one doesn't really do great.
He said, yeah, you've got to think Elon Musk doesn't want you to leave Twitter to go to another site. He wants you to stay on the Twitter. So he said, if you post anything with URLs that are pointing to somewhere other than Twitter, it actually bumps you down in the algorithms. I was like, all right, that's interesting.
I don't know how true that is, but I thought that's an interesting point. If you're already in a website, why do you want people to go away from your website? If you're using a social media app, why do you want them to go to another app? We don't tend to have that problem with Facebook and Instagram.
We've only just recently started doing this. We've started with. with reels so them short clips that we're doing now we're actually going back through episodes and finding more than just the initial clip that we post on facebook we're finding more with those little clips because that is it's just another ballgame entirely is that you know tiktok really boomed in 2020 but then portrait videos and the way people just you know scroll through so i've actually been putting reels together as well i don't know how successful that's going to be in terms of Helping the podcast because I watch clips all day and even things like I've been watching clips from logan paul's and impulsive podcast.
I never go and listen to the full thing But when the clips are on i'll always watch the clips now I had this conversation with our marketing leader said if anything though if we can still challenge the stigma Yes, it's not necessarily going to result in downloads of the podcast But we're still challenging the stereotype and the stigma through those reels.
We're having people who aren't necessarily falling into that category of here's your stereotypical drug user or someone of alcohol dependency. So I said we're still hitting targets there of challenging the stigma. And that was like, yeah, that's understandable as well.
[00:21:37] Measuring the podcast 'sROI
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[00:21:38] Jason: You mentioned return on investment and, it's a really important phrase for anyone who's in content marketing, any kind of marketing. what I'd really like to just dig into a little bit with you is what resources you have to apply. To the show and how you measure success.
How do you measure your return on investment?
[00:22:04] Matthew: So it's interesting because we're not, I think part of the strength for our podcast, and this is the one thing that we say when we're talking to guests is look we're not monetized. I'm not here to make money off your story. And I think that'd be where I'd, this is where this podcast wouldn't work.
You couldn't get people to share intimate and dark parts of their life and then make money off it. It'd just be immorally wrong. And that's part of the reason why I think we've been able to get some more high profile guests. And hopefully we're going to have a few more in the bank this year.
I won't mention names because just in case they don't come through and then I look like a, I look like a numpty. But the strength of it when we're selling this podcast to people to come on and speak of us is look, we don't make money on this podcast. Also you have 100 percent what's the word, maybe autonomy over the podcast.
So if you don't like it, if we record an episode, you listen to it back and you go, I don't like it. We can scrap the entire thing. part of the Michelle Heaton podcast, there was a few things in there that her agent didn't want to really go into the public eye because it fought to consider backlash.
And we was like, absolutely. So we caught quite a lot of stuff out. And I think by being able to do that, we're not a tabloid, we're not looking for the scoop on things, and to be fair, there was a few things said in that Michelle Heaton one that could probably have got a couple of media headlines at the time, especially in terms of being, all the time she was on Dancing on Ice and she did a celebrity SAS, it was still in the public eye and things like that, but we chose not to use them. return on investment?
It's a difficult one because how do you find out if you've challenged stigma or not? Do you know what I mean?
You can't, can you really? You just, it's one of the things where we're putting things out there, hoping it makes the world a better place and fingers crossed. And with a little bit of magic, maybe it is. But that's it in terms of return investment. There's no money. We're not necessarily we're putting money into this But we're not making money on it And I think that puts us in a very unique position to what a lot of podcasts out there are trying to do in terms Of getting advertisers on And, sponsors on We said we're not interested
[00:23:54] Not about the money - what's the objective for Believe In People?
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[00:23:54] Jason: you know, if it's not about monetization, I'm going to push you a little bit on it because what is it that you are really wanting to get out? Because there clearly are some resources behind it. You've got backing from the commissioning bodies in Hull. You've got your studio. You came down to London to do a recording session here at Creative Kin. So, When you go into the any recording session, what are you looking to take out of it?
[00:24:24] Matthew: Raise awareness different topics. That's what we're trying to do depending on who we're talking to So each guest will have a particular topic that we want to talk about when we came down to London That, time There was a couple of topics we wanted to talk about we wanted to talk about the stress and pressure of being a social media influencer Alcoholism
[00:24:42] Jason: that that session was with
[00:24:44] Matthew: Clara Hermit.
Yeah,
[00:24:45] Jason: Clara Herman. Yeah.
[00:24:46] Matthew: Yep So there's always things that we want to discuss with people as things that we want to raise awareness of and things that we want to highlight But I think that's where people often get confused with it, so they say you don't make money off it, you don't do this, but you put all that money into it, I was like, yeah, because it's worth it, if we, it sounds very hippy dippy, but if we can make the world a better place, if we can challenge stigma, if we can challenge stereotypes, especially at a local level here in the city, you know what I mean? I absolutely love my city, if I can make my city a better place for the people who live in it. And I think, for me, my life has always been pretty simple in the sense of, Treat others how you'd like to be treated. And you can't go too far wrong. And I think this is it, really. I think anybody with a drug and alcohol problem deserves to be treated with respect and dignity, regardless of them having these problems, or regardless of what they've done.
And, I think going back to the ethos of Believe In People, yes, the whole thing is everybody has a story to tell. But it's belief that people can change. At the end of the day, I work in a drug and alcohol treatment service, I say to staff here, if you don't believe that the people coming from the door, no matter how bad of a state that they are in, cannot change, cannot get better, cannot get well.
If you believe that, then there's the door, you're in the wrong place.
[00:25:51] How the Believe In People podcast brought brought the UK National Recovery Walk to Hull
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[00:25:51] Jason: Has the podcast been a good community building tool? You talk about you love your city, you talk about the local impact, and you are the community lead at your organization. So has the podcast been a a useful tool for that community building
[00:26:09] Matthew: We held the UK National Recovery Walk in Hull September 23rd last year, and we saw 3, 000 people come to the city to march around the streets of Hull in an organized event done by, with a council, show this is what recovery looks like, this is what sobriety looks like. I don't think we would have got that recovery walk to come to Hull.
It's run for an organization called Faces and Voices of Recovery UK. I don't think we would have been able to get that event to Hull had we not had the podcast behind us and shown the work that we'd done the people that we'd spoken to and showed the passion of how we're trying to raise awareness for that.
from that event alone, the community that was built put on that, event and the community that has been the legacy of that event since. is massive. And I don't think that I honestly 100 percent do not believe that event would have happened or been as successful as it was without the recovery walk.
And this was a nice thing. I don't know this podcast for me. I've nothing to gain from it myself in that sense. But during that recovery walk, there was a moment where I stood near the whole marina and multiple people was coming up to me and shaking my hand and saying, love the podcast.
Love how much work you're doing it. You're doing so much for the recovery community. I think people are shocked when they find out I'm not in recovery myself. But I think that's the strength of the podcast as well. It's not just one person with an addiction talking to another person with an addiction. I often put myself in that position of a member of the public and ask the questions that the public might have about addiction.
I know why someone can't just immediately stop drinking. I know the health risks involved with that. But these are the questions I ask people and they talk about the madness and the chaos and I go why didn't you just stop drinking? So I get to put myself in a member, a position, a member of the public.
So seeing, having people come up to me and saying, thank you for what you're doing for our community. I love that because I, it's people saying that I'm helping them and their community. I don't think I can really get much more praise than that from people.
[00:27:59] The coming year for the Believe In People podcast
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[00:28:00] Jason: That is amazing. It really is amazing. And you're now, I think episode 37, and you launched back in spring 22. So as a couple of years, episode 37, from what you're saying to me, absolutely no sign of stopping. What do you want to achieve with believing people? In this coming year in 2024,
[00:28:23] Matthew: Do you know what? I like to keep it simple, but I think we're only scratching the surfaces from stories to tell. Do you know what? There was an interesting point when I spoke to Kevin Kennedy. He said something like, my story is much like everybody else's. And don't get me wrong, there's a certain truth in that.
there's definitely a pattern to the behavior, but for as long as there's stories to tell, I'll keep doing the podcast. As long as people are still listening to it, I'll keep doing the podcast.
And it doesn't have to be massive numbers. I think that's the one thing that I've tried to get out of my head was, this one only got 175 listens. Does it matter? That's 175 people benefited from that resource. That's amazing. Even if 10 people listen to it, I think that's great You know if it's helped 10 people, these are the sort this is the one I say about what do we get out of it?
A girl came up to us not song go and give us some feedback said because of your podcast I was able to get my dad to his first AA meeting We've done a podcast around mutual aid and the fellowship with a lad called Darren. And she said, because of your podcast there, I'm able to get my dad to his first meeting.
And I was like that's brilliant.
[00:29:26] Getting personal: what Matthew you gets out of podcasting
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[00:29:26] Jason: your personal enthusiasm for the project is really coming over. I wonder what you have gained from it professionally, personally, being the host of the podcast over the last couple of years.
[00:29:40] Matthew: I think for me, it has just been understanding that everyone, again, I say this a lot, but everyone has their, everyone has a story. And I think in a way that's changed so much about me as a person, like. I used to take things quite personally. If someone could be quite short or snappy with me, I'd, my mind would be, what have I done?
What have I done to upset them? And now, I'm just like, ah, they've probably got some stuff going on. You don't know what people are going through. You don't know what people have gone through.
We call it trauma. The big thing at the moment, the buzzword that I'm seeing over the last year or two has been trauma, trauma informed practice. And it's looking at people's individual behaviors and not taking things personally but I guess coming from it from a trauma informed angle of they're behaving like this because they've experienced X, Y, and Z.
In a way, that's something that I've gained out a bit personally. And even down to my personal relationships, if I come home today and my wife's real snotty with me, I'm not gonna think it's something that I've done. I'm gonna think, oh, she's had a bit of a rough day here. Do you know, whereas before, I'd be like, what have I done?
it's just seeing people as, again, it sounds obvious, but seeing people as individuals and not judging people and so that's something I've really taken from it.
[00:30:52] Jason: And if you were talking to another non profit that was wanting to build community or raise its profile and looking at a podcast as a way to do it, what would you say to them?
[00:31:05] Matthew: I'd just tell them to think about their audience because that's the main thing. And think about the longevity of it. I know with what we're doing, we could go on forever realistically. We've got over 3, 000 people on our books. Do you know what I mean? If I spoke to every single one of them, that's podcasts for the next day.
20, 30 years. Just really think about your audience and what message you're trying to put out there into the community and just think about the resources as well.
Because You have to invest. That's the one thing, if we didn't have the power to invest into social media advertising and the promoting the posts and stuff, the podcast would likely have fallen on its ass organically. So you have to have some money to go into it.
And it doesn't necessarily just mean the equipment, but I mean, in terms of the promotion of it, how are you going to get the message out there as well? And these are the sort of things that I don't think we really consider that first. And that's why the podcast maybe struggled for the first couple of episodes, but luckily was able to work it out pretty quickly.
[00:32:01] Jason: Matthew, thank you so much for joining the Content Mavericks Club. It's been really great speaking to you. Appreciate you coming on.
[00:32:08] Matthew: Thank you for having me Jason, I've really enjoyed it.
That's it for this edition of the Content Mavericks Club
Many thanks to my guest Matthew Butler for sharing their experience of building a community around a podcast.
If you're struggling with drugs or alcohol, head over to changegrowlive.org - you'll find links in the description - and they'll connect you with people dedicated to helping you.
And thank you for listening.
If you'd like to support the show please leave us a five-star review - it really does help us reach more listeners.
And if you want to learn about other guests featuring on the show, head over to contentmavericks.club - there's plenty there to explore.
In the meantime I'll look forward to your company in the next edition of The Content Mavericks Club.
TOPICS COVERED
01:02 Introducing Matthew Butler
03:40 Matthew's podcast: Believe In People
07:08 Believe in People - the goals for the podcast
08:05 How Matthew got investment buy-in for his podcast
11:03 Who is Mathew's ideal listener?
12:48 Hard to reach audiences - is the podcast the right tool?
16:45 Which podcast promotion tactics work for Mathew's show
19:46 Matthew's most successful social channels for podcast promotion
21:37 Measuring the podcast's ROI
23:54 Not about the money - what's the objective for Believe In People?
25:51 How the Believe In People podcast brought brought the UK National Recovery Walk to Hull
27:59 The coming year for the Believe In People podcast
29:26 Getting personal: what Matthew you gets out of podcasting

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Matthew Butler stumbled into addiction support work in his early 20s.

He soon shed his naivety about addiction and is now the Community Lead at addiction recovery support service Change Grow Live Hull.

The idea of a podcast emerged during the pandemic when lockdown meant that addicts in recovery were unable to access support groups such as Alcoholics Anonymous. Lapses and relapses surged.

Believe In People tells the stories of people from all walks of life who are in recovery.

Matthew tells The Content Mavericks Club how his show overcame early challenges, the key factors in growing the show, and how teh podcast is promoted and marketed.

Matthew Butler features on The Content Mavericks Club podcast, hosted by Creative Kin CEO Jason Caffrey