High Gain Habits for Independent Podcasters
As host of the Content Mavericks Club podcast, Jason Caffrey is privileged to speak with creators and marketers from different industries.
He also listens to lots of podcasts.
But sometimes he finds that although his favourite shows have great content, he is often too busy to really capture the key takeaways.
To solve that problem for his own listeners, Jason shares six hugely valuable learning points from Content Mavericks Club guests, over two episodes of his popular content marketing show.
Jason Caffrey is CEO of podcast agency Creative Kin and host of The Content Mavericks Club podcast
“I want to meet people I can learn from and are fun to speak with, so I can provide high protein content for my listeners”
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Jason Caffrey is CEO of podcast production and marketing company Creative Kin.
His spouse describes him as ‘the idiot who runs this place’, but in fact he is a super-talented audio and video creator.
Before he founded Creative Kin he was a broadcast journalist at BBC World Service for almost two decades.
A good yarn gets him out of his seat every time, and few things make him happier than a story well told.
He is addicted to coffee and analytics. Web, podcast, social. Just give him the data. Now please.
Jason likes miso, sonatas and making people laugh.
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High Gain Habits for Independent Podcasters
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[00:00:00] Intro
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[00:00:00] Jason: I'm privileged to speak with creators and marketers from different industries, each with their own unique experience and original take on how to make content work for them. I also listen to a lot of business podcasts, entrepreneurship, content marketing, branding, and my favourite shows are high protein.
They're packed with information, but that presents a challenge.
I often listen on my commute and typically I finish listening, dive straight into the next part of my day and I don't really capture the key takeaways.
So over the next two episodes, I'm going to share six hugely valuable learning points I've taken from guests who've joined me here on the Content Mavericks Club - with a particular focus on podcasting.
And to make it easy for you to capture those takeaways, there's a free download that covers all the learning points. It's called High Protein Habits for Podcast Growth. It includes bonus takeaways, action points, and a full list of resources as well. So you can grab your free download now at contentmavericks.club/habits.
I'm Jason Caffrey, CEO of podcast agency Creative Kin.
Let's jump straight in with high protein takeaway Number One: confidence.
[00:01:23] Have Confidence - Podcasts Are Thriving
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[00:01:23] Jason: Why confidence? Well, here's some good news. Podcasts are thriving.
And there are three big reasons why now is a great time for independent brands to make their mark in the podcasting space.
One, the podcast market is growing.
Two, the audience is high value.
And three, for independent producers, there's something of an open field right now.
Let's unpack that a bit.
Adam Bowie is a commercial strategy manager at BBC World Service and he's also an expert on podcast listener data.
Here's Adam talking to the Content Mavericks Club about the UK podcast audience.
[00:02:03] Adam: The good news is it's generally a pretty attractive audience for most people's metrics. It's also quite diverse. Male and female audiences are quite similar. It's also really great for reaching minority groups.
If you look at ethnicities overall ethnic minorities, where we're talking about 24, 25%, it might be into the high 30s, 38 percent according to the Ofcom numbers. Obviously the type All the genre of podcast will vary.
You can look at something like sport. That's probably going to skew male. If you look at true crime, yes, it does skew female.
[00:02:38] Jason: So that was a really popular episode where Adam and I digged into what's happening with podcast listening in the UK and it reiterated the strength of the UK audience.
There are about 20 million regular podcast listeners in the UK right now and year on year that audience is seeing steady growth.
Now you may have seen, as I figures of 10%. annual growth quoted. and I don't know if that's the US market or the global market, but here in the UK, it's more like 3%, So, less sexy, but steady growth. And podcasts are most popular with 25 to 34 year olds.
However, The 35 to 44 year old cohort is giving those 25 pluses a massive run for their money.
They're almost matching the younger cohorts enthusiasm, their level of consumption.
So if you want to reach 25 plus people with a disposable income or families with preschool or school aged children or even mid career adults who've achieved some professional seniority, people in those life stages are among the most voracious consumers of podcasts.
As Adam points out, there's also an opportunity to reach niche audiences who may not be best served by mainstream media or even bigger podcasts. And that's really been my experience with the Content Mavericks Club. I'm not competing with Joe Rogan or Elizabeth Day or Stephen Bartlett.
Put simply, I just want to talk with people that I admire and who inspire me.
I want to speak with people who might be a good fit to do business with at some point, and I want to meet people I can learn from and who are engaging and fun to speak with so that I can provide that high protein content for my listeners, for you, and do that in my content marketing niche, all in a package that's compelling and informative.
At least that's the bar that I'm trying to get over.
So that's listener growth and audience value. So let's talk about number three, that open field for independent podcasts.
if we rewind for a moment to 2020, There was a massive podcasting boom. We were in the grip of the pandemic, in lockdowns, and there was something like 1.2, almost 1. 3 million new podcasts published in 2020. These are global figures.
In 2022, there was an 80 percent fall in new shows against that 2020 spike. And in 2023, new show growth was basically flat. There were fewer new shows coming into the market across the board. Big producers were focused on growing the audience for existing shows.
So what that means for independent producers now is that, with the froth, if you like, having gone out of the market, it's left openings for new entrants.
If you've got a clearly defined niche, And you've got clarity of purpose, you're focused on your audience, and you've got a solid value proposition for your show. There is currently a real opportunity to find and command an engaged audience among podcast listeners.
Now, I've read some commentators saying that will be gone in three years.
I mean, opportunities never last. remain open indefinitely. I don't know. I'm not going to predict the future, but I do believe that right now is a great time to be going into the podcast market.
So that was a brilliant conversation with Adam that I came away from feeling like my faith in podcasting as a medium and a content marketing vehicle had been 100 percent validated.
So that's takeaway number one: have confidence. Podcasts are alive and well.
[00:06:46] Podcast Market Fit - The Secret Sauce For Success
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[00:06:46] Jason: So takeaway number two is podcast market fit. Something I've experienced with clients wanting to launch a new show is that they can find it hard to pull their audience, their target audience into focus.
When a business creates a podcast, it's a marketing tool designed ultimately to draw prospects further through their sales funnel. All the evidence tells us that starting with the audience you want to reach and building a show to fit is key to show growth.
But for many independent brands, The reality is a lot messier.
It's much scrappier than that clean streamline process suggests.
And in some cases that's not given anything like adequate attention.
So I want to give you an example of a show with a robust, but modest audience that has done a fantastic job of working a niche with a specific listenership. And it's attracted several sponsors.
The show is called the SEO mindset, and it's co hosted by career coach, Tazmin Suleman and SEO expert, Sarah McDowell.
[00:07:56] Sarah: There is this idea that you need thousands and thousands of listens a month to even get sponsors, but you don't, I don't have thousands and thousands of download a month.
We've got a decent amount, but we're not talking crazy numbers.
And I'm a firm believer that you can still get sponsors if you are aligned with any sponsor, any brand, any organization, if they know that they can have access to an engaged audience.
It's a no brainer for them, and we could demonstrate that.
[00:08:30] Jason: For me, the huge takeaway from speaking with Sarah, who, by the way, is also the SEO manager at Captivate FM, the podcast hosting company, was that she has successfully monetized her podcast with a listenership that's considerably smaller than many people imagine is needed to attract a sponsor.
And she's done this by being really clear about her audience and the value proposition of her show.
The SEO mindset is not about how to do SEO, it's aimed at professionals working in the industry and it addresses many common challenges that they encounter that people working in that sector come across in their working lives.
And because she's talking to SEOs about the SEO industry, she's built a loyal and engaged following among SEOs.
Who is her latest sponsor? SEO company, Stat Search Analytics.
Who does that company want to talk to? SEO professionals.
Where can they reach an engaged audience of SEOs?
The SEO mindset podcast.
As Sarah put it, for any company that wants to reach that specific audience she has for her show, sponsorship is a no brainer. It's quality, not quantity that wins here.
So that's takeaway number two podcast market fit. Keep it front of mind at all times.
[00:10:01] Podcasting To Drive Your Content Flywheel
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[00:10:01] Jason: Let's talk about the last one for this episode, take away number three, which is make your podcast drive your content wheel.
This is something that Amardeep Parmar does brilliantly at The BAE HQ.
Now Amardeep is a long time content creator and an entrepreneur and The BAE HQ, which he co founded connects British Asian entrepreneurs with angel investors. And right at the heart of this operation is The BAE HQ podcast:
[00:10:31] Amardeep: So way more people will see our Instagram reels than who listens to the full podcast, but it's inch deep, right? with a podcast, you get a much deeper connection with people where they'll actually get a good idea of whether or not they like you. that's so important, right? Because if they like who you are and they back you and your mission, they're way more likely to come along the journey.
Whereas There's a million instagrammers and tiktokers who are all the same, sorry to Instagram and TikTokers, but longer form content, which is podcasting It really gets people to have that deep connection with you and that deep connection is what can really make a change.
[00:11:01] Jason: Amardeep's show does four critically important things for his enterprise.
It builds his network among successful Asian business personalities, exactly the people who might be interested in becoming angel investors.
It builds his audience among British Asian entrepreneurs who want to hear from successful business people who've gone before them.
And this is the audience who, also want to attract investment for their startup.
Then it funnels both those groups into attending live events where they can meet, network, and learn about and from each other.
And in the case of the audience, the listenership for the podcast, that's done by steering them to join a mailing list where they get priority access to events. So it's incentivized.
And finally, between the podcast and the live events, Amardeep generates a ton of content for his social channels that build awareness of his business, his podcast and his live events.
And it's brilliant. It works really, really well. And all of the parts of that wheel are working in service of the other.
But the podcast is very much at the heart of the whole operation It's the hub around which all of the other parts turn. So brilliant job. That's takeaway number three. It's the last one for this episode.
Put your show at the hub of your content wheel and let it drive your content ecosystem.
That's certainly something that I am building to with this show. And it's something that you may find even drives your entire business.
[00:12:43] Outro
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[00:12:43] Jason: The next episode of the Content Managers Club covers another three brilliant takeaways from successful independent podcasters who've been extraordinarily open and transparent about what's worked for them, what hasn't, and the crucial decisions they made to build their shows.
For now though, I'm Jason Caffrey. Thank you for listening. Join me again next time for the Content Mavericks Club.
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TOPICS COVERED
01:23: Have Confidence - Podcasts Are Thriving
06:46: Podcast Market Fit - The Secret Sauce For Success
10:01: Podcasting To Drive Your Content Flywheel
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From the Creative Kin blog
As the audience for podcasts continues to grow, their value as a marketing tool increases too. If you’re asking yourself if a brand podcast should be part of your content marketing strategy, you’re not alone.